Anony Mous

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Posts by Anony Mous

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  129

  Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

  that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

  https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

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  Anony Mous

  @AnyMous

  That doesn't seem plausible since he was severely whipped, hung on a cross, had a spear thrust in his side, and yet appeared to hundreds of people only a few days later with no apparent sign of streets from the abuse.

  Interesting twisting of scripture there. According to some of the gospels (depending on which one you read) Thomas touched his wounds. People survive pretty serious car accidents, are they all deities? I'm just saying it is 1 hypothesis. Note none of the synoptic gospels mention a spear being thrusted in Jesus' side. So you can take the minimalist agreed upon punishment between the gospels for the hypothesis to have a chance.
  

  Hard to image who hundreds of people could have a hallucination about interacting with the risen Jesus over a several month period, in different places. Especially, when people touched him and his healed wounds.

  First of all, you must prove he was risen and not simply a guy that survived a crucifixion, which Josephus, someone you like to quote often as 'proof' that Jesus was divine based on a proven falsification of his record, wrote about seeing at least 3 'failed' executions and resurrections. The scriptures themselves state that the crucifixion was hurried while contemporary records state such crucifixions often took 3 days. There is even a guy that has gone through the whole crucifixion thing 30 times in his life (Ruben Enaje). According to the gospels, Jesus only appeared to a small group of people, the large group claim is much later by Paul who himself admits he wasn't there and has been noteworthy in scriptural analysis to be less than reliable.

  But, that is not what we are dealing with here. You are asking us to believe that the apostles (and other eye-witnesses) were willing to die for a cause they KNEW to be a hoax.

  Most of the apostles apparently died of old age. Only James died by Herod. Persecution of Christians doesn't start until 69AD and is very much localized to Rome itself (find a local Jewish minority to shove some blame on), it's not until 200 years after Christ supposedly lived that more wide ranged persecutions happened.
  

  That ain't going to ever happen. People are willing to die for things they believe to be true, but would they all be willing to die for something they know to be a lie? I don't think so.

  How many JW's died in concentration camps and on the issues of blood transfusion?

  But, this is not what he said is it.

  Yeah, because some backwater first century religious zealot knew what epilepsy was. Paul was a great sales guy. Do you believe everything the GB says about "Andre". We know for a fact some of the things Paul experienced were ripped off straight from The Bacchae a 400BC Greek tragedy.

  - Pentheus does not believe in Dionysus (a deity who has also lots of similarities to Jesus FYI) and wants to eliminate the Dionysus cult that just arrived.
  - Pentheus is described breathing out rage (Paul is described breathing threats and murder)
  - Pentheus has an unexpected epiphany.
  - Pentheus hears a voice that says, "kick against the goads" (literally, the same words in Greek, that phrase appears only 4 times in all known ancient Greek literature, all in parallel tragedies and the NT)
  - Pentheus becomes a believer of Dionysus
  
  What are you talking about? Has a personality ever resulted from any known process other than reproduction? No. It is ludicrous to suggest otherwise. In otherwords, a miracle.

  Yes, people assign personality to various AI these days, people assign personality to characters in video games or books. You don't seem to understand the words I'm saying, personality has nothing to do with consciousness.

  That description is incompatible with data. Even the most remote tribes who have been cut off from the rest of civilization observe a moral code similar to everyone else’s. Although differences certainly exist in civil matters, virtues like bravery and loyalty and vices like greed, theft and cowardice are universal. If man were responsible for that code, it would differ as much as every other thing that man has invented. Animals have no problem with theft, greed etc.

  Bzzt, wrong. Animals have moral codes, even non-primates, dogs, horses, elephants, pigs, fish and birds do. Again, you do not understand the words I'm saying. Animals do have problems with greed and theft, their survival depends on it.
  
  You or anyone else can suggest all they want to. But it won't change the fact that if your arbitrariness was true, then the principles of logic or reason would vary by circumstance. But, that is not the way reason works is it? No, reason and logic are stable regardless, of location, people group, or circumstance.

  So how come me and you come to a different opinion about all of the above? By your own logic, we would all be simple automatons.
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  20

  Dankest of JW Memes

  by Apostussy in

  1. social
  2. humour

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  Anony Mous

  
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  43

  JW Vaccine mandate: The contrast between voices of reason and confusion

  by ukpimo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was reading an intriguing post on the exjw reddit, a forum i do not with to sign up for, as i'm not interested in the internal politics of reddit.

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1hwlja8/the_governing_bodys_letter_that_shook_bethel_and/.

  another post counteracted this one, driven by the "conspiracy theory" card.

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  Anony Mous

  Methinks there are a bit more sociopaths, psychopaths and dark empaths (which is another word for sociopath).

  You've got some good starting numbers here: https://www.opensecrets.org/2024-presidential-race/kamala-harris/demographics?id=N00036915

  And then some more here: https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/how-many-jw/

  And most of these people too: https://www.congress.gov/members - https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/data-analysis-documentation/federal-employment-reports/reports-publications/federal-civilian-employment/
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  129

  Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

  by liam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

  that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

  https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

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  Anony Mous

  @SB: Gary Habernas' minimal facts are relatively easy to disprove. First you must agree that Jesus existed "as described" which many people don't. But even if you kind of say, sure there may have been a character like Jesus, you have to contend with these criticisms:

• Jesus died by crucifixion

  • While crucifixion is widely attested, some scholars (e.g., John Dominic Crossan) argue that we cannot be completely certain of the details due to the limited (almost non-existent) historical record.
  • The earliest Christian writings (e.g., Paul in 1 Corinthians 15) do not describe the mechanics of Jesus’ death in detail.
  • Some theories (e.g., the swoon hypothesis) suggest Jesus may not have died but instead survived in a critically wounded state.

• The disciples had experiences they believed were appearances of the risen Jesus

  • Psychological phenomena like hallucinations or mass delusions could explain these experiences.
  • Cognitive dissonance reduction suggests the disciples reinterpreted their expectations after Jesus’ death, leading to visionary experiences.
  • Other religious movements have similar claims of post-mortem appearances (e.g., Marian apparitions), but these do not necessarily prove an actual resurrection.

• The disciples were transformed and willing to suffer and die for their belief

  • Many religious movements have members willing to die for a cause (e.g., Islamic martyrs, Heaven’s Gate). Sincerity does not equal truth.
  • Evidence of specific disciples' martyrdom is weak. For example, Peter’s crucifixion is based on late traditions, not contemporary sources.
  • Social and psychological pressures could have reinforced their commitment despite initial doubts.

• Paul, a skeptic and persecutor, converted after an experience he believed was of the risen Jesus

  • Paul’s experience as described could be explained as a medical event, such as an epileptic seizure
  • Religious conversions often happen without necessitating a supernatural cause (e.g., Muhammad’s revelation or Joseph Smith’s visions).
  • Paul never met Jesus and only describes his experience in vague terms (Galatians 1:16).

• James, the skeptical brother of Jesus, converted after an experience of the risen Jesus

  • The evidence for James’ skepticism before Jesus’ death is weak and primarily based on Gospel accounts, which were written with theological agendas.
  • Family members of religious leaders often become followers after the leader's death (e.g., successors in Islamic or Buddhist traditions).

• The tomb was found empty

  • The earliest sources (Paul’s letters) do not mention an empty tomb—only later Gospel accounts do, which may have been legendary developments.
  • Alternative explanations include grave robbery, relocation of the body, or mistaken tomb identification.
  • Some scholars argue that Jesus was likely buried in a mass grave, making the empty tomb story unlikely.






As to your other statements, I've previously rebutted them:

• "Matter produces information"

  • Information is not a property of matter itself but a description of arrangements and patterns within matter. In physics and computer science, information is defined as a measure of order or complexity, but it requires an observer or a system capable of interpretation. DNA contains encoded information, but the process of mutation, selection, and environmental pressures influence its structure. Without an interpreting system, raw matter does not inherently "produce" information.

• "Order comes from Chaos"

  • In thermodynamics, entropy (disorder) tends to increase in an isolated system, but order can emerge in local subsystems due to energy input and natural laws. For example, in statistical mechanics, self-organizing structures like hurricanes, crystal formation, or biological organization arise through deterministic processes. Chaos theory also shows that complex ordered patterns can emerge from chaotic systems (e.g., fractals, turbulence, planetary orbits).

• "Life comes from non-life"

  • While abiogenesis is not fully understood, evidence suggests that organic molecules necessary for life can form through natural chemical processes. The Miller-Urey experiment showed that amino acids (life’s building blocks) can arise from simple chemicals under early Earth-like conditions. RNA-world hypotheses suggest that self-replicating molecules could have formed from prebiotic chemistry, leading to early cellular life through natural selection.

• "Personal comes from Non-Personal"

  • Consciousness is studied as an emergent property of neural complexity. Neuroscientific research supports that self-awareness, emotions, and decision-making arise from interactions among neurons and biochemical processes in the brain. Models of emergent complexity suggest that personality and agency result from layers of cognitive functions rather than requiring an external personal agent.

• "Morality comes from Nothing"

  • Morality is widely studied in evolutionary biology and psychology as a product of social and survival mechanisms. Studies in primates, early human societies, and evolutionary game theory suggest that moral behaviors like cooperation, fairness, and reciprocity arise due to natural selection favoring group survival. Morality is not derived from "nothing" but from social contracts, evolutionary pressures, and cognitive processes.

• "Reason comes from Non-reason"

  • Cognitive science and evolutionary biology suggest that rational thought evolved as an adaptive trait. Early organisms developed simple problem-solving and predictive abilities, which became more sophisticated through natural selection. Neural networks, trial-and-error learning, and reinforcement mechanisms led to the development of logic, abstraction, and critical thinking. While the initial cognitive processes may not have been "reasoned" in the human sense, they laid the foundation for rational faculties.

  Note that a lot of the things you describe as coming from 'nothing' naturally emerge in relatively (compared to nature) simple reinforcement learning algorithms which you can run on your computer 'today'. This is an area of study (what lay people currently consider to be "AI") which I've been involved with 15+ years now, but this has been well known for decades. Emergent behavior in substructures is really interesting and truly comes from natural selection of random distributions.